Gentlemen,

I found this nice ´haube´in the market.

It came with the original box. Haube and box showing the same initials. `LG`.

The ensemble looks genuine to me, but it´s my first haube, so I have no experience at all. I don´t wanna buy an upgraded or played with item.

Any ideas/thoughts/facts/opinions greatly appreciated !

Thanks in advance, and please forgive, that I made to many pics.

All the best;
Jerry

sandstone2

suumquique

eaglerightsidetail

deutschesreich

tip

top

airventback

leatherdetail

prussia

chinstraps

insideopenfull

insidetailopen

insideinitials

insidetailclosed

box

boxinitials

Too many pics, please forgive. I hope, Admin will not throw me out...
Thanks for patience.

not a chance of getting tossed!

these are great pix and appreciated.
from my limited perspective, i think you have
the real deal, and well preserved.

joe

Thats a great find looks to be all genuine .Rob.

Hi Jerry,

Thats a very nice haube you have there! As for the LG , I believe it stands for Landgendarme, its like a territorial police unit, as for the mark '11', I can only assume that its the 11th Unit of the Landgendarme.
The landgendarme unit is unique, they wore the Garde/grenadier style eagle
wappen and also used the Garde Star (!). Infact, the LG haube has the same exact appearance as with the Garde units.
The Prussian Garde Infantry Regts usually have these depot marks:
- GGR (Garde Grenadier Regt) eg--GGR5 (5th Garde Grenadier) or 4GGRK (4th Garde Grenadier) or simple 5GR
- Gd (Garde)
Overall, yr LG haube is original, its intact, the liner is great and it comes with the marked carrying case, thats a rarity! Without the LG marks, this superb helmet could definately pass for a Garde haube.
Is the kokarde a 48 mm sized?
It seems that you have a fine threaded chinscales there, i will check out the chinscales and the side posts again.
But overall, this is a very nice haube. And this is just my opinion.

Hope this helps
Wito (Mush)

Hi Musashi,

let me say first thank you for your great information ! Yes, it helps a lot.

Second, I do like your avatar cause it´s a funny one.

I think you´re perfectly right. I found a LG marking in a german magazine about police pistols. They wrote, that the prussians stamped everything that couldn´t run away. I made a pic from this marking on a leather holster. The info you gave is very interesting and helpful.
One question. It´s an eagle with a normal star in it, but officers chinstraps. Is that usual for Gendarmerie ?
The kokarden are a 4,8mm.

Thank´s again for your great help on this item.

All the best;
Jerry

this is why i LOVE MCF!!

thanks to both of you!

joe

Hi Joe,

this isn´t the end...

More facts I found out.

The Landgendarmerie was granted to wear the Guard's star on 30.12.1895.

`11` must be 11th gendarmerie brigade.

Landgendarm on horse back had a haube with cornerd peak, on foot a round one.


Gendarme Huebner approx. 1890, Wachtmeister on horse back approx. 1905, two gendarmes on foot, a haube from a gendarm on foot.... Pics aren´t that good, sorry.

Thanks again for your kind help !
Regards;
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Wow, thats some research you did there.
The 48 mm kokarden is for NCOs who were entitled to wear portepee (portapeeunteroffizier)
As for the chinscales, those are not officer's those are EM's. but I have some doubt abt the originality of the chinscales.
I will get back to you abt the chinscales, they just dont seem to match with the side posts.
And yes, you are right, there were 2 LG, one is mounted and another one is foot. In times of war, these guys served as Gendarmerie.
And, thanks for the compliment for my avatar, yes, its very cute and funny

Mush

Hi Mush,

thanks for the info and the time you spent on this item.

The chinscales are fitting well in my opinion. There is no space, they are tight. The kokarden aren´t very tight, you can turn them a little.
The traces on the peak are also fitting to the brass of the chinscales.
Hope this helps a little.

Thanks again, I´m looking forward to hear from you !

All the best;
Jerry

Hi Mush,

more infos to add. Found a nice page about spiked helmets.

If I understand www.kaisersbunker.com right , the Garde chinscales were more flat than the normal ones.
See
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/hp12b.htm .

Chinscales had regular 3mm at the base, the Garde ones had just 1,5-2mm. See http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/hp21.htm
That is what we find on this LG haube.

In my unexperienced opinion there are no problems with this haube and the chinscales ??

I have a return privilege on this haube. Price is US$1400. If there is any problem with this item - instead of not being garde - I will send it back immediately.

Thank´s a lot again. I´m very happy that you help me with this Pickelhaube.

All the best;
Jerry

Hurra ! I found the size marking !

Must be 57 1/2.... Funny.

Regards;
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Sorry for the late reply, I was out of town for 2 days, and I was in a rush on friday.
Yes, Tony 'kaiser''s site is VERY VERY useful, and Tony is a great guy, too.
His site is very well informed and my, what a collection he has there!

As for the LG haube, I was wrong abt the chinscales, they are ok. Can you ask the seller to detach the wappen and have him send some pic(s) of the wappen rear view. The Long thin thread (both of them) looks too new, perhaps they are new, to substitute the original missing thread.

But I belive that this is not a Garde haube, there is a LG mark, this will be a very very fine Garde haube if the LG mark is not there.

Hope this helps

Hi Musashi,

nice to see you again ! Thanks for your reply.

The gendarmeriehaube is in my hand, here are the pic you wished. There is a small repair at the holder of the star. My jeweler will make that perfectly in a couple of hours, he claimed. He just have to solder a small bow, I believe.

Thanks again, you´re helping me so much !
Regards;
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

WOW!! Congrats!! Its a very beautiful haube!!

The thread seems new and the solder job also looks new, but, hey, its a very nice haube and garde wappen you have there. And it seems that the wappen is original to thehaube, as there are no other soldered place, which indicate that the wappen was taken from other haueb and then the seller had it resoldered to match the holes. It looks good. By the way, is one of the star's loop missing? is this the soldering job that you are refering to?

Thats a very solid haube, I am drooling now..

Congrats!

Mush

Hi Musashi,

yes, one of the loops is gone. My jeweler said it´s not a big deal, so he should repair it.

I thank you for your kind help and the time you spent on this item.

Thanks a lot !


All the best;
Jerry

HI Jerry,

Here is the mounted version of LG haube. Convex chinscales, cruciform base spke base.

http://www.militaria-seidelsohn.de/seite12.htm

Mush

Hi Musashi,

thanks for the add. It´s really nice to see a mounted police haube.

The haube must be in service after 1895, because it shows the gardestern ? Therefore I believe it must have a reichskokarde ??

You already bought the ulan ?

All the best;

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I think its a reissued haube. The write up describe it as 1860/1895 haube. look at the rear spine, there are some round studs on the rear spine, check out tony's site

http://kaisersbunker.com/pe/pe.htm

But the LG mounted has a garde star, hence it must be a 1895. I think perhaps this 1860 haube was reissued to the mounted police after it was phased out by the regiments.
I think all LG units have only the reich kokarde, they dont have any state kokarde.

No, Jerry, I lost the Uhlan, darn, I was outbidded while I was sleeping. Darn! It was a nice uhlan, hey, ebay are auctioning a baden M15 and steel haube minus wappen and losing most of its original colour tho.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1


Thanks
Mush

Hi Jerry,

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=6531885747

Gentlemen,

I found a great website about haube markings. Looks like an interesting source of information.

http://www.coljs.com/articles/DepotMarks.htm

Oh, I forgot to say. This website offers much more info than markings.

http://www.coljs.com

Regards;
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Yes, Joe's site is very nice, he is very helpful, and here is another great site, its the supremo site for pickelhaube lover:

http://pickelhaubes.com/pages/html/index.php, you should join the site, Tony, Joe and the rest of the hardcore haube lovers are all there.
The guys there are very very helpful, bunch of crazy guys.
They have an 'helmets on ebay' and a 'pickelhaube' forum, too. I would advise you to ask the forum before buying any haube.

This appears to be a beautiful officers Picklehaube from the state of Prussia if the black white black cockade is original to the helmet also the scaled chinstrap shows it is an officers one. Nice to see you have the hat box for it that explains it's great condition.

Hi Mush, I think you are reading the kaiser Bunker info not quite right. The mounted LG helmet only looks like an M1860, but it is actually a Dragoon pattern which the LG wore. See Tony's site he has a good guide to helmets which shows the dragoon pattern right up to the intro of the steel helmet in 1916. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/pt/pickelhaube.htm Add on a Guard eagle, it looks like guard dragoon, but it is actually mounted LG. Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the info, thats an interesting observation.
Is this Tony's haube that you are refering to?

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/pt/pt64.htm

Its a dragoon haube, pls note the charateristic dragoon wappen, something like Jaeger zu Pfferde's wappen, note Tony's wappen.
There are several reason that I dont think Jerry's LG is a dragoon haube.
1. Well, first of all, all dragoons includng the guard dragoon EXCEPT dragoon regt 3 has a square visor, whereas Jerry's LG is has round visor.

The 2 guard dragoons (1. garde-drag-regt.konigin viktoria v grossbritannien und irland g & 2. garde-drag-regt.kaiserin alexandra v russland) have the Guard Eagle and guard star thats exactly like LG, but once again, both of them have square visor.
2. All dragoon, incl the garde drag have cruciform spike base, pls notice Tony's EM drag, whereas Jerry's round spike base.

3. All dragoon, incl the garde have convex chinscales like feld arty, whereas the LG has flat chinscales like foot arty's.

There are 16 Line Dragoons Regts, and the first 3 are unique.

- Drag regt 1 (drag-regt prinz albercht v preussen Nr 1I) use all gilt fittings and on 7.6.1844 prinz albercht of prussia sanctioned a gilt Grenadier Guard Eagle without the garde star as their wappen, but again, they have cruciform spike base and convex chinscales and square visor.
- Drag regt 2 (1 bradenb.drag.regt nr 2 III) use normal Dragoon Wappen but an AKO of 16.6.1913 authorized the wearing of an emblem on the dragoon eagle.
- Drag regt 3 is unique, its nt really refered as dragoon, but as mounted grenadier regt mo 3 (gren-regt zu pfferde freiherr v derfflinger nr 3 II), hence it has a round visor. But it has a crucifom spike base and convex chinscales, too. on 22.3.1897 the regt was granted to wear flaming grenades in the placce of the usual chinscale rossetes, and its also granted to wear a guard eagle without the star.

The other line regt, nos 4-16, all wear the normal dragoon wappen, convex chinscales and criciform spike base, well, some have gild trimmings whereas some have silver trimmings and all wear black plumes (haarbusch) for parades.

Hence I really dont think that Jerry's LG is a dragoon haube fitted with a garde star.

But again, this is my opinion, nevertheless this is a very interesting topic

Hope this helps

Mush

Hi Musashi, You wrote in posting #35

"i think its a reissued haube. The write up describe it as 1860/1895 haube" and "I think perhaps this 1860 haube was reissued to the mounted police after it was phased out by the regiments."

I thought you were talking about the one for sale at Seidel and Sohn, which is a mounted LG which looks the same as a dragoon helmet. Guard dragoon actually.

Jerry's of course is not 1860 style, or dragoon style. I was talking about the one at Seidel and Sohn. Wish I had the money.

If some one doesnt mind, what does the lg 11 on the inside mean? TIA and Jon

Hi Jon,
it stands for Landgendarmerie. That´s police. Please check post#21+.
Best;
Jerry

Dear Jerryh1180,

Of all the lederhelms in my collection, my M91 Garde NCO was the favorite, not only because it pre-dates the Great War by over 20 years, but also due to
the initials contained within. That's prior to reading your dialogue with Musashi!!!! You see, on the inside shell, the embossed inscription reads as
follows; "L.G. 1893". The helmet, purchased from Rick Keller, Owner of Great War Militaria just outside of Gettysburg, PA, also came with a storage box, labeled with the manufacturer's name (not L.G.).What yours truly thought was
an eigentumshelm (private purchase helmet), turns out to be a Territorial Police example - ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING !!!!
By the way, I've gotten alot of good stuff from Great War Militaria. Rick knows his stuff, and tells you what's original & what's not. The price is a bit higher in some cases (not as exhorbitant as some collectors who need to pay for their fancy websites, and whose knowledge of pickelhauben is dubious
at best), but the items are guaranteed.
Thanks for the update !!!

THEHORSESFOUR[color=#00CCCC]