TOLD ME WAS PRODUCED BY MARKLIN....DO YOU THINK IT IS AN ORIGINAL ONE?

Hi there Peiper!

How is the Oldenburg Rgt 91 M15 haube doin? I have to ask

Thats a neat Wurtt ersatz steel haube you have there, well, honestly the only steel haubes that I know are mostly prussian, its quite uncommon, for me at least, to see non prussian steel haubes.

Yours seems original, the wurtt wappen plate is very neat, the liner is intact and there are some faint marks in the interior, too. Need to see the Wurtt kokard tho.

It was made by MARKLIN, you said? i will check the references abt haubes producer and will let you know again.

Great steel haube!

Cheers,
Mush

Hi Peiper,

Check out this wurtt ersatz steel haube, its similar with yours.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Pickelhaube-Wuerttember...1QQcmdZViewItem

Cheers,
Mush

Hi all,
keep in mind, that this ebay item is a repro ! Sammleranfertigung - made for a collector - repro.
All the best;
Jerry

Yours Peiper just has that been there look, I would say it is real sir! But Im not very good with these, Mr. Mushsashi is the one to go w/ these! Jon

Hi KoRn Rules,

I haven´t meant peiper´s pickelhaube. That seems to be a nice one. I referred to Musashis ebay link. That´s a reproduction.

All the best;
Jerry

Oh yes sir I understood what you were saying Mr. Jerry, I was just saying I only have one Haube and Im not like a good guy to go by one these things. No probs at all sir! Jon

Very nice, different and a swell example of what has got to be a rare helmet. Some of these "ersatz" helmets were made by notable German tin toy manufacturers. Gebruders Bing is another such firm...Marklin, I think was a toy company too.

Robert

In reading the Ebay listing, I didn't get the feeling they were selling a "repro". Ersatz does not mean that...it implies "substitute" material. The leather embargo of 1915 is what precipitated the need for helmets made of different materials. Are these tin spikes being reproduced today? If so, I'd sure like to get plugged in to whos doing what. Thanks, anybody!

Robert

Gentlemen,

the ebay seller says SAMMLERANFERTIGUNG. That german word means "made for or by a collector". It´s a description for a repro.

"Sammleranfertigung einer Ersatz - Pickelhaube aus Stahlblech. Glocke dunkelgrün / feldgrau"

In an addition he makes clear that it was made recently (neuerer Zeit).

"Es handelt sich um eine Sammleranfertigung einer Ersatzpickelhaube aus neuerer Zeit. "

Ersatz means of course substitute. That´s not what I´m referring to !!

The word Sammleranfertigung has no other meanings in german than made by/for a collector. I do believe that this word is important to know. Please keep that in mind when you are reading german offers !

Sorry for beeing too educational.

All the best;
Jerry

That's a mindblower and a pisser. Now we have phony Ersatz helmets to deal with! SOS is coming up in Feb, and I'll be looking to encounter some of these. Thanks for the heads up Jerry. If anyone lands one of these puppies please give us a good look. What about the Wurttemburg tin helmet that starts the thread?....should we hold it suspect?

Robert

PS....Guys notice the helmet in the first post doesn't have 1 damn dent! How odd is that for a feldgrau combat helmet. These were very cheezy helmets, I would have preferred a leather helmet over the flimsy tin.

Hi chaps,

Jerry is right, the wurttemberg on german ebay is a repro, the seller had described so,darn, I know nuts abt german langguage. And now I am sure that the liner must also be a joke! Thank you, Jerry for pointing this out.

Yes, Robert, there is at least a known FIRM that made a fake tin/steel haube, a friend of mine supposedly went there several years ago, will have to check the data again. And Robert is also right, during the war years, Bing was one of the toy manufacturers that made these tin and steel haubes.

This has been a very good topic, and eye opener

Thank you guys, cheers,
Mush

Hi Mushashi, thanks for your input. I was hoping we could keep this groove going...I would like to know more. Bing and Marklin were two of Germany's prominent makers of toys. Obviously they acquired contracts around 1914 or so to make these helmets....Marklin could very well still be in business and I'm wondering if they still might have the dies to do the stampings...? I know I'll be keeping my eyes open for these fake ersatz helmets, we already know there are "repro" lobstertail helmets out. These fake ersatz Wurts add a new twist to the wrinkle. Interesting also that they chose that state plate to repro and not just your typical Prussian one.

Robert

PS,... Bing was located in Nurnberg, Marklin in Goppingen.

Another quick incidental....Goppingen is in the old state of Wurttemburg. I would not be surprised if the firm of Marklin is making these repros...just a thought here guys. Cheers! Can't wait to check out this years SOS in Louisville to see if there are a bunch of these out and about...ha, ha, ha! What a hoot.

Robert

Hi Robert,

Here is the liner joke

Yes, I am also curious abt those companies which are making repros, some of them are just ridiculous, like this ebayer by the name gsm7, his haubes are just ridiculous.

But some of them are very finely crafted, but i thing the most detectable thing will be liner. I am also very curious, will check out whether the bing and marklin cos are still around.

Check out this guy
http://www.kammerbulle.de/Hauptseite.htm

His wappen section is just stunning, imagine someone buying them now and keep it for say, 50 years, and will they pass to be the original? But at least the seller is honest, he claims his as repros.

Btw, pls take some pics of the SOS, especially the haube dealers, I cant attend it...

cheers,
Mush

Ach zo.....very interesting! ....a refin?....with a gnarly old liner saved and put back in? Oh man, that German company's repros are mindblowing...I had no idea they'd be that good! Gave me a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. Are they faithful in every detail?

Robert

Hi all,

this has become a very interesting topic. Here are some of these purveyors. They don´t claim that their products are genuine, but wait for years or decades. They don´t mark their beauties as repro. That´s the problem I see.

http://www.kpemig.de/sess/utn;jsessionid=1...view.shopscript

http://www.lomax-militaria.de/de/shop.php?...utsch/Uniformen

If you can´t open pics, you habe to click thru the whole site. www.lomax-militaria.de. Open the shop. They have a lot of "Sammleranfertigungen".

http://www.reenactor.net/zzschipper/1a-germ_helms.html

All the best;
Jerry

Hi Guys,

Check out this one, its a miniature haube, have you guys ever seen somthing like this?
Kind of cute tho

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=6580972520

By the way, Robert, i cant find any reference abt the existence of bing and/or marklin company today, I dont think they survived.

Cheers,
Mush

I 'googled' Marklin. In 1999 they celebrated their 140th anniversary. Originally known for their model trains. They later started creating Germany's best metal toys.

Robert

Hi all,
Marklin is famous for their train models ! Not only toys, they are producing expansive collectors items.
Regards;
Jerry

Hi Robert and Jerry,

Now thats something, Marklin still exists?! Wow, what abt emailing them, asking for historical data abt the haube making, how many haubes did they manufactured and what happened to the original die casting/moulding?
Perhaps they have some period pics of the haube making process, that will be awesome!

Wow!
Mush

Another kind of interesting tid bit about the German toy industry is that they got the metal/tin sheeting from the UK...South Wales. I assume that when war broke out all previous trade relations ceased eventually. There was the leather embargo in 1915 and I'm guessing the Brits stopped sending metal to Germany too...? I have heard there was another "ersatz" style helmet fabricated from a papier mache' material! Now that's cheezy! How about vulkan fiber? Did they make Haubes from that too?....anyone?

Robert

Hi Robert,

Yes, there are papier mache and vulcan fibre haubes, but so far, I only saw or encounter 1(one) papier mache haube, it was sold on ebay sometime ago by a friend of mine, it has all the charateristic of a M15 haube. And they only used for a short time.

As for vulcan fibre, there are some examples around and infact, the vulcan fibre had been used even before the war, I guess some of them wanted to have a lighter and a 'scratch proof' haube. But of course, those are private purchase, not issued helmet.

Usually, even during the war, the vulcan fiber haube were only wore by officers', hence they have all the officer's fittings, but mostly, with a bayonet mount lug type detachable spike, excatly like the EM M15.

There was even a korkhelme, but these were made only in limited numbers as they were deemed not sturdy enough. And they are quite rare, and well pretty expensive now, once again, we have to pay dearly for that not sturdy helmet that was phased out by the german army, darn, darn, darn....

Hope this helps,
Mush

I owned a tan cloth spike many years ago...sorry I let it go, it was very cool. Those vulkan fiber pups are very high gloss ones worn by the high ranks for parades aren't they? I'm bowled over when I see some of those horsehair plumes etc....quite dazzling.

Robert

Hi Robert,

You had a tan cloth spike? Do you still have the pics? It could be a 'macedonian' front haube that you had. Thats really cool!

As for vulcan fiber, yes, those are mostly bought by officers, but they mustnt necessarily high ranking, basically an officer had to buy his equipments and the quality depended on how the officer was willing to spend and how wealthy he was, well, for 2nd LT I belive depended on how rich daddy was.

Cheers,
Mush

Mush, my spike was a Prussian w/tan twill covering, brass, subdued fittings. Sadly, I have no shots...its been gone for a decade. I used to make a killing at the Antique Malls when I lived in St. Louis, that's where I found the tan one...$375. Uh huh, read it and weep.

Robert

Hi Robert,

I belive yr tan covered haube must be a unique one, too bad you have no pics.
Btw, the wurtt repro that we were discussing ended up at USD 410!

Thats something, isnt it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

cheers,
Mush