Hi guys,

I managed to get this all time great classic, "All Quiet on the Western Front', lots of interesting movie props there! Feldgraus, uberzugs (guess it was much cheaper and much easier to make a bunch of covered haubes than making M15 or 1885 haubes), rifles, bayonets etc.

Just for fun, gang, lets see whats nt right on these vid caps, especiall the Kaiser's haube . Its a great movie, I dont think there is another WWI movie that displayed such great props.

Lets jump in, guys

Cheers
Mush

Hi Musashi,
long time no see ! Hope you´re fine, my dear friend.

Yes, nice movie, thanks for posting !

The book is worth to read. It had been written by Erich Maria Remarque in 1929. It was forbidden by the Nazis. Remarque emigrated into the US in ´39.
He had a love affair with Marlene Dietrich between 1937 and 1940. It´s an interesting story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remarque

My best wishes to you ! Keep on collecting !
All the best;
Jerry

Is this the 1979 one with John Boy in it? Or a new one? The original was awsome, very well made.
OKW

Hi Jerry,

Yes, long time no see, how are you? How is the project going on? I have been trying to buy the book for quite some time now. Any haubes coming in lately?

Hi OKW,

It was Richard Thomas who starred as Paul Bremmen, I just look at the box cover, yes, its the original 1979 movie but was 're-touched/re-digitilizied' in 2003, hence the clear and crisp pic quality, its a powerful movie indded.
By the way, are those real Gew 98 they are holding? And what abt the bayonet, is that a proper german sawback bayonet (Kat was explaining that no one used bayonet anymore, sharpened spades were used instead, is that true?)
I love the trench shoot, looks so real, so filthy.

Here are some more vid caps, pls enjoy
Cheers,
Mush

Hi Jerry,

Yes, long time no see, how are you? How is the project going on? I have been trying to buy the book for quite some time now. Any haubes coming in lately?

Hi OKW,

It was Richard Thomas who starred as Paul Bremmen, I just look at the box cover, yes, its the original 1979 movie but was 're-touched/re-digitilizied' in 2003, hence the clear and crisp pic quality, its a powerful movie indded.
By the way, are those real/proper Gew 98 they are holding? And what abt the bayonet, is that a proper german sawback bayonet (Kat was explaining that no one used bayonet anymore, sharpened spades were used instead, is that true?)
I love the trench shoot, looks so real, so filthy.
Its truly a great movie.

Here are some more vid caps, pls enjoy
Cheers,
Mush

They do not look like Gew 98s, wrong barrel bands. Hard to tell on the saw back. I really liked Ernest Borgnine as Kat. I have not seen this one for a long time. Have you seen Paths of Glory? One of Stanley's first films. Great.
OKW

I think the bayonet is original, but I think the Mausers are Swedish.
The original movie made in the thirties (B&W) used all original uniforms and weapons. It is still the best version!

http://rr.bizrate.com/marketplace/product_...d--2000498.html

I have both versions - the 1930 one & the 1978 one, on dvd.
I read the book first which is an excellent book.
But one should realize that the book was written in 1929, 11 years after the end of the war, & Germany (& the rest of Europe & of course the USA) were in states of turmoil which led toi an enormous dissillusionment, namely against institutional structures like governments & armies.
So the book is powerful, but should be taken in that context.
I much preferred Junger's "Storm of Steel" & Barbusse's "Fire : The Story of a Saquad" bothwritten at the time of the war & by soldiers who served & saw loads of action.

For the films, I prefer the 1930s version as the 1978 version is heavily romanticized.

I was recently in Berlin (in February) & was talking with a friend about the book & film & he said that when the film was first shown in Berlin in 1930, Goebbels organised a group ofpeople to go & burn the cinema down, which they did.
This shows the real nature of the book/film - a story about anti-militarism which was a call against the rise of the diverse politico-militiary style groups that emerged in Germany in the years after WW1.

Hi OKW,

No, I have nt wacth the Paths to Glorey, is it also a WW I movie?
And as for the 1930 version of All Quiet, does anyone has the dvd? I am extremely curious abt the movie props, the pickelhaubes the stars wore in particular, how accurate were they?

aE3, is it possible to post some of the vid caps? I am curious abt the Kaiser's haubes and the uberzugs in the 1930 version.

I love these scenes, it was when the Kaiser arrived, he was escorted by a troop of Ulanen (Uhlan/Lancer), love the Tscapka prop the Ulanen are wearing,the one riding behind the kaiser's automobile, the Tscapka's mortaboard is well pictured, the front visor and the high profile side of the Tscapka is also shown, even the Ulanka (uniform) also distinguisable.
I wonder if the motorbike is also original, that would be very cool!

BTW, is it true that no one used bayonets in the war? They opted for sharpened spades instead?

Cheers,
Mush

Hi Musashi, I'll post some screen captures later on or tommorow.

About bayonets, they were used in the war, quite extensively at the beginning.
Some Germans had a bayonet with a serrated edge which ripped as iyt was pulled out of the flesh.
When a German soldier who had this sort of bayonet was captured, the French & British invariably killed them as this bayonet caused such atrocious wounds.
In the beginning of the war most bayonets had a sort of hook by the guard. This was to be able to catch another bayonet (in a fight) & snap it in half.
But due to the nature of the heavy armaments extensively used, reliance on this close combat with bayonets diminished & the hooked bayonets were replaced by bayonets without hooks.
British soldiers trained extensively in bayonet fighting which, as the war drew on, many soldiers & officers serving thought it was a complete waste of time.
But bayonets were extremely handy in a fight in a trench when there wasn't enough place to use a rifle.
All kinds of weapons were used, clubs with spikes, coshes etc.
There's a great scene of hand to hand fighting in the 1930s film of "All Quiet on the Western Front" - I'll capture a few images of the scene aswell.

Paths of Glory is a WW1 film, about the French army.

One very good film is by Sidney Lumet "King & Country" starring Dirk Bogarde.
It's a story of a man suffering from shellshoock who was executed.
It really is worth seeing.

Okay, will get those captures up soon.
:)

The outrageous thing about the saw back was that the British had them back in 1905 or so. So why were they so pissed at the Huns? In the original B&W All Quiet I do not remember a scene when the Kaiser was there, there were a couple officers but I do not think the Kaiser was there. I have read the book in both German and English. It is better in German. The artillery bombardments are wild in the original as well. I don't think they were as safety oriented back then. Great book and 2 great films.
OKW

This is one of my all time favorite movies! Plus I read the book in high school.

That's what you call some miserable, horrible fighting. My hat's off to the poor Germans who got whooped up on by everybody in the end.

Rob

Sorry I took so long doing the screencaps - excuse - new computer to configure.

Here are a few screencaps from the 1930 version of the film :


















It was pretty hard choosing which screencaps would be good,
so I ended up doing 512 ! Obviously I won't post
them all here, but I put them in a .zip archive
& it can be downloaded from here :

512 Screencaps (approx 18.5mb)

Hope they are of interest to some of you.
:)

aE3, very well thought-out selection that you posted. I think that I detect an artistic taste.

ae3, I was just wondering if you can PM me with instructions on which program you used to get those screencaps. I have a documentary that I really want to get from pics from.

Thanks, Rand.

Musashi, to your original point; what's wrong with the Kaiser's Pickelhaube, etc...plenty.

First the Kaiser...
enlisted pattern pick
short spike
no Korkades
no spine (on any of the pix)
Prussian General's uniform, he only held that rank in the Bavarian Army
Wound Badge

The others...
Swedish Mausers
motor cycles appear to be later vintage
too many buttons on the Ulankas
no Uhlan Regiment rode greys, not even kettle drummers

Hi Halbicht,

Yes, back to the original question, you are right there, the kaiser’s haube is not a proper Kaiser haube, its nt even a proper officer/private purchase haube specification.

On the top row pics, the Kaiser haube is shown having only ONE kokarden, yet his haube skull is that of the 1895/97 type. Whereas single kokarden was only used only as late as the 1867 haube. And the 1867 as with other older haube, the haube skull is ‘taller’, as clearly shown from the side profile.
The 1867 haube has only the Prussian kokarden, no Reich kokarden, and the Prussian kokarden was worn on the RIGHT, not on the left as depicted in the movie.

Middle row pics, the Kaiser and another officer’s haubes are missing the rear spine, whereas only the 1867 haube that has no rear spine, infact the rear spine was reintroduced again in 1871. And the movies is supposedly to be the year 1916 or 1917, no one is wearing a 1867 haubes by then, not even the Kaiser.

Bottom row pics, as noted by Halbicht, the Kaiser’s spike is definitely an Enlisted Man’s spike, not an officer’s and least of all Kaiser’s. Botton left pic is the Kaiser’s spike in the movie, compare it with the bottom middle pic, a Wurttemberg EM spike, they both look similar, and the Bottom right pic is a Saxon Officer spike, its taller, more elegant, has ‘pearlings’ on its ‘neck’.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/perlring.htm
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/spikes.htm

And a Kaiser’s haube, I belive, is much more elegant and much higher in quality than any private purchase haubes.
The movie portrays the kaiser wearing a 1897 EM haube but with no rear spine and only one kokades is present.

I heard that his haubes and uniforms are still well preserved in the Castle Doorn, hmm, is it Doorn Hius or Doorn castle? Jerry was there and he said they are magnificent!

Hope this helps and cheers,
Mush

Hi guys,

Here are some fun pics again,

The kaiser’s haube is very identical with the Prussian EM haube,a Rgt 25th haube in this case, except that he has a chinscale instead of EM’s chinstrap.
The kaiser’s eagle wappen is defiantly a EM one (reproduction, I believe), the spike base is secured by 4 round studs, which is proper for EM, whereas officer’s are secured by 4 Star shaped bolts.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/spikes.htm

All officer’s wappen are more detailed and the crown’s are all voided/pierced, whereas the EM’s crown is solid, non voided.
The middle and bottom pics are all private purchase/officer’s wappen, notice the eagle’s crown, they are all voided, whereas the EM’s is not voided.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/wappen.htm

Hope this helps,
Mush

Hi aE3,

Those are amazing screencaps! I think the 1930 version is far more realistic than the 1972 ones, perhaps even more ‘brutal’, well, there wasn’t much safety thing back then, and it seems that the 1930 movie is trying very hard to be as original as possible with the period props and costume.

There is a scene that took me by surprise, pic number 5, the hand to hand fighting scene, its the german wearing an uberzug, but check out the uberzug’s spike area, it has the spacing for the spike’s ventilation holes! Which is correct for a proper uberzug, and that’s a surprise! Compare that with the 1972 version, there are no spacing or holes on any of the uberzugs' spike area.
Thats very suprising, could that be an original uberzug? Or perhaps a very realistic prop?

Very amazing screencaps, by the way, I cant open the link to the 512 other screecaps, could you post another link, please? I would like so much to see the screen caps. So you have 2 versions of the movie then?

Will try to post some pics abt the ventilation holes on the 1930 screencaps.

Cheers,
Mush

Top row pics are the caps from the 1930 and 1972 movie and their close ups, notice the spike neck area of the haube’s uberzug (canvas cover) worn by the 2 respective actors.
The 1930 version clearly shows that the uberzugs has the ventilation holes, whereas the 1972 version does not.

The 2 lower row pics are original uberzugs, they are Phil’s (Helmetman), notice the spike neck area, the ventilation holes are present.

Hence, like aE3 and Phil said, the 1930 version is more realistically portrayed, infact, could that be an original uberzug? Or some very realistically prepared prop?

Cheers,
Mush

PS.

Oops, there are some mistakes in the caption, those wonderful uberzugs belong to PHIL (HELMHUNTER)not "helmetman", my apology to Phil.[size=1]

Hi Mush,
I'm very angry.
Phil

Great thread going here...the movie, spikes and covers...cool topic. The original 1930's movie starring Lew Ayres will always get my vote, great for its day and holds up well over the years. Gritty and nightmarish. The remake with Borgnine and John boy...ludicrous.

Robert

Great topic and great comments! The book and the movies are excellent! As far as the movies go, the 1930 version is the most historically accurate regarding uniforms, equipment, etc.----from what I understand, everything used in the movie was original German issue. I noted only one inaccuracy in the 1930 version----during the "basic training" scenes, the solders were issued NCO picklehaubes (chinscales; short/enlisted spikes). Otherwise, the uniforms, equipment, and props appear to be historically correct. I read that many former WWI German soldiers, living in the U.S. at the time, were used as "extras" for the movie. Also, a former WWI German Army "drill sergeant" was used to "train" the actors and ensure the realism of the training and battle scenes. The 1979 movie used reproduction uniforms and equipment, as well as many "surplus" items from various european armies. Note, the uniforms and steel helmets were not the correct colors. However, in my opinion, the 1979 movie followed the book closer than the 1930 version did. In addition to the two versions of "All Quiet on the Western Front", check out "Westfront 1918". This movie was made in Germany, and like the 1930 version of "All Quiet on the Western Front", everything is original.

This is an interesting thread.

WWI Collector, I have not heard of "Westfront 1918", when was it made?

"Westfront 1918" was made in 1930. Like "All Quiet on the Western Front", it is also based on a book. From time to time, it has turned up on Turner Classic Movies. A subtitled version is available on VHS from Amazon.com; I have not seen it offered on DVD. While it is a very good movie, I do not think that it is quite on par with the 1930 version of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Hi WWI,

Thats a very interesting info! Do you have the 1930 DVD? Is it possible to post the pics of the basic training?
Imagine, wearing original haubes for movie, if I were the extras, I would have steal it!
Btw, there are how many versions of the movie actually?
1930, 1979 and....?

Robert mentioned abt John Boy, he wasnt in the 1979 movie, so there is another version? Like King Kong?
And it seems that the 1930 original version is the best, original costumes etc.

Cheers,
Mush

Richard Thomas was 'John Boy' in the Waltons TV series. He starred with Ernest Borgnine in the remake.

Robert

I have the 1930 version of "All Quiet on the Western Front" on VHS. It is the "restored version", with "restored footage". My copy of the 1979 version is also on VHS. I bought both of these movies around 1990, before DVD was widely available and popular. I plan to eventually get both of these versions on DVD. Unfortunately, right now, I can not post any video clips. The "basic training" scenes I referred to in the 1930 version occur right after Paul and his classmates arrive in their barracks. They are all sorting through their issued gear and getting into their uniforms for the first time. To me, it looks like they were issued NCO picklehaubes----the helmets have chinscales and short enlisted-type spikes. In the 1979 version, there appears to be several uniform errors. If I am not mistaken, the tunics Paul and his classmates wear throughout the movie all appear to be cut like the 1915 "bleuse". They are wearing these later style tunics when it is supposed to be early in the war, and while they are still wearing picklehaubes. The tunics also are the wrong color---they are brownish colored rather than feldgrau. The steel helmets also have inaccuracies---there is a "dimple" where the liner split pins are supposed to be located, the chinstraps are not correct, and the color is wrong (almost dark black instead of feldgrau). In spite of these errors, I found the 1979 version still very good and enjoyable---this movie followed the book very closely, and the combat scenes were great. I think to truely appreciate the story, one has to read the book and see both movie versions----each has something unique to offer.