Did they ever convert M95's or any other prewar haubes into M1915 Haubes?

I've never seen such a helmet but it does not mean they never did it.
However it seems difficult and costly to do this way knowing that in 1915 the studies on the steel helmet were finished and it was about to be issued.
Hope it can help
Cheers
Phil

Ok, I was wondering what they did with all the prewar Haubes when they switched over to the M15.

The M1895 was not completely discontinuated ans was issued along with the M1915 according to the availability till replaced by the steel M1916. The haubes were hidden by the cover but I don't know what happened during the parade days?
Phil

Hi,

Phil is very correct,the 1895/97 haubes served side by side with the M15 haubes, technically, the M15 was made to replace the reflective nature of the 1895 haubes, as the brass trimmings proved to be a liability. And I think the QC could nt cope with the great demand of M15 haubes, hence some 1895/97 haubes were still present.
Some erzats haubes did have PARTS of the 1895/97 leather on them, perhaps these are the ones that are in question, will try to dig some pics.

There is a pic that best explains abt the existence of various haubes within one single period.The pic is nt mine.

Notice the existence of felt ersatz haubes, black tin ersatz haubes and I think, I see a leather haube.

This pic confirms Phil's explanation.

Cheers,
Mush

I think this is a Hessen Regt group pic, but check out the 2 Prussian haubes!What are they doing in a Hessen rgt? It seems that the Prussian haubes wear the same uniform and shoulder straps as with the other Hessen guys.
Could it be that the Hessen rgt just simply ran short of Hessen haubes and the only haubes available are the Prussians, well, its wartime after all.

Cheers,
Mush

Thanks for the info guys, as you can tell I do not have reference books on haubes so I'm trying to learn a little more.

Mush, that would be interesting to see if you can find some pics.

Regards, P-40.

Hi P-40,

During the the final phase of the haube life, some oddities appeared as the materials are getting harder to get, the clothing depot/Quartermaster would just slap on anything available. I found this pic in a reference book by Eric Johannson. I am sorry for the poor quality of the pic, well, I have no scanner, so I photographed the pic instead....

This is an wartime ersatz EM haube, the body is made of felt, yet the trimmings are still brass/pre war trimmings (including the wappen)instead of the subdued 'pewter' coloured trimmings commonly found in the M15 haube.
Black leather chinstrap and the front visor is obviously leather instead of felt material.


This haube obviously has PARTS of the 1895/97 haube slap together with ersatz material.But I am still confused as WHERE exactly this kind of variants were made, was it done in the Clothing Depot or in the factory itself? Was it originally a felt haube with brass trimmings, and during sometime it was send for repair and the front visor was changed with a leather pre war visor? Or this is how it look when it rolled out of the factory line?

Will dig up more pics.

Hope this helps,
Mush

Then there is this pic, a Prussian Garde EM with his M15 haube, but what amazing is the GLOSINESS of his M15 haube!

I have never seen any M15 EM haubes with that kind of high gloss quality,so unreal, and its an EM haube, nt a private purchase haube.

It makes me wonder, does our haubes lost their glosiness as time pass by?

The 2nd pic is of an Oldenburg Rgt soldiers, notice the mixture of the haubes present, M15, felt and perhaps even steel ersatz. And interestingly, the ersatz have lost all the Oldenburg star. Perhaps its for efficiency measures and cost, just place a Prussian wappen and thats all.

again, those pics are nt mine.


Cheers,
Mush

Hi,

Thanks for posting those, that is very interesting, it would be great to know how the ersatz felt haube got a leather visor, was it common for haubes to be made with older leather parts towards the end of the haube era?

You're right!, that is shiny, I wish I could see that one in person.

Hi,

I am sorry, these pics should be posted with the last reply, they shows the mix bunch of haubes present.

Towards the end of the war, the QC was having a hard time in ordering haubes for called up soldiers and there were nt enough time and materials for that, hence they will just dig up the old stocks of pre war leather, brass trimmings etc, which was actually nt in accordance with the AKO sthat stated all trimings should nt be brass, and the colour should be subdued.

Towards the evry end, much simpler haubes were made, as they were faster and cheaper to produce, such as Phil's ersatz:
http://www.militariacollecting.com/index.php?showtopic=27584

SOme toys company, like Bing, was even given order to make tin ersatz haube, these tin ersatz were made from single sheet of tin metal.

Cheers,
Mush

Hi P-40,

Pls check out Tony's excellent site:

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/pt/ersatz.htm

it covers and describe the ersatz in a detailed manner.

Cheers,
Mush

Hi,

Yeah, Tony has a great collection, I enjoy browsing his site, were you ever able to find anymore out about Helmhunter's 1917 dated M15?

Hi,

As for Phil's 1917 M15,(http://www.militariacollecting.com/index.php?showtopic=26793), I think my best explanation is that the haube was given to a rear echelon soldiers in 1917, hence the stamp "1917".

Well, even though the steel helmet was introduced and haubes were already phased off by 1917, some rear echelons were still issued haubes instead, hence the BA VII 1917, then the haube needed some repair and it was send to the BKA's repair shop, and marked again, hence the BJA VII mark. So the haube was perhaps issued in 1917 after all, and it was for rear echelon guys...

But again, this is just my theory, you have great haubes there, Phil!

Btw, I remember seeing a pic of 2 Prussian soldiers, they are still wearing the Dunkleblau (pre war) uniform, yet wearing ersatz felt haube, and the caption stated that they were those gurading railway or something. Will look for the pic and posted it here.


Cheers,
Mush

Yes, I enjoy looking at Phil's Haubes, he has a great collection from what I have seen.

That makes sense, I saw a 1917 dated cover, so the issue date sounds right.

Also, since some you seem to have some pretty good reference in the way of units, does anyone have any information on the 355th Feldartillerie regiment?


Thanks, P-40.

Here is the pic that I was refering to.

The caption states that these guys are from the unit that guarded railways, a non combatant/rear echelon unit.

They are obviously wearing pre war Dunkelblau uniforms, and yet their headgear appears to be ersatz felt haubes, nt even M15 haubes, those were ersatz felt. Which I believe the pic was taken at least in 1916, when ersatz entered service.

And I am as curious as Phil, How did they look when they were on parade? Did they wore the uberzugs over the haubes, or wore their pre war (for those who still had it, that is)? Will try to dig up more pic(s) on these matter again.

As for 355th Fieldarty regt, is it one of those wartime regts? Coz the references that I have all mostly pre war establishent.
Prussia had only 84 (Rgts 1-84) Feldarty Rgts plus 4 Garde Feldarty and a Feldarty school Rgt.

The other states had even lesser, only 1 Rgt (62Rgt) in Oldenburg, 4 in Baden (14, 30, 50, 66, 76), 2 in the Grand duchy of Meckelnburg-Schewrin & Strelitz( would love to have on these Mecks' haubes...too expensive )

2 in Hesse (Another haube that I would love to have, and again, very expensive, darn! ), 4 in Wurttemberg, 8 in Saxony and 12 in Bavaria.

And the highest numbered pre war Feldarty regt was the Prussian 84th.
Perhaps the 355th was raised during wartime and it is pretty difficult to track the war time regts, as Regts were annihilated, dismantled and reformed again and again, or just simply newly raised. I am really confused with those wartime regts.


Hope this helps and cheers,

Mush

Those are some nice pics, yeah I think it was a wartime unit, they are very confusing, Thanks for the info.

P-40.

Hi gang,

Just for fun, this is the only Hessen steel ersatz haube pic that I have ever seen, infact, I dont think such haube (Hessen steel ersatz haube) exists at all, as the most common being the Prussian, and other states like Peiper's Wurttemberg etc

http://www.militariacollecting.com/index.php?showtopic=21395

We are yet to find any Hessen steel ersatz, nt even on ebay, infact this pic, I believe, is the first ever 'evidence' of it.
Wonder how much will that cost, all Hessen seems to fetch big bucks, darn.

Cheers,
Mush

Hi Mush,
Always great info. Very interesting pics.
No more collecting the picklehaubes I would really love to own a steel erzats one.
Cheers
Phil

Hi Phil,

Yes, these steel ersatz are pretty unique, at least these steel and tin ersatz provided a certain amount of protection for the heads..ouch~!
Have you check Randy's ageofkings site? He had/has a tin stamped ersatz, and yes, like you, would love to own one of those....especailly those Baden, Wurtt, Hessen (!) steel and/or tin haubes.....darn the price tho..

Love yr posts abt the assembly line of making the haube, its very informative, always learning something new here!

Btw, you are nt stopping collecting haubes, arent you?

Cheers and have a good day,
Mush

Hi guys,

I managed to find this very intreseting pic, the guy is wearing the haube we have been discussing, an ersatz haube with pre war/leather/brass trimming parts in action.

Hope this helps,
Mush

Hi,

That certainly is an interesting haube, do you have any info on the regiment of the guy in the photo?, do you think that was done at a haube maker's factory or do you think it's a rebuild?

Thanks for posting that pic.

P-40

Hi P-40,

I have no info abt the guy's regt, he has no obvious regimentall id, except that he was an NCO.
And as for its origin, I strongly belive that BOTH factory and depot/repair depot made such mixed parts haube. There are survving such haube with BJA marks (depot/repair), some with 'F' mark (repair) and some with just plain BA amrks or even non marked.

Cheers,
Mush

I would love to have his haube in my collection!

Have you seen any originals of these mixed haubes for sale?

I think I have seen one of those mix haubes on ebay, I will look for it and will let you knw when one of those pops out.

By the way, I just made a surprising discovery myself, I always kind of doubted the existence of the so called 'macedonian front' haube, Its a very simplify ersatz helmet, with no spikes and no wappen, just canvas cover and a metal tag indicating its rgt.
I have seen a few of these pn ebay, but somehow, they just doesnt attract bidders, and was told that these macedonian front haubes are easy to copy.

But I stumbled into this very interesting pics, a group of german soldier in macedonia wearing the MACEDONIAN HAUBES! So it does exists!

I think I saw one of these macedonian haubes on ebay, didnt pay much attention, and no one is bidding again, until I stumbled into this pic, will check it out again and post the link.

Your question has trigger lots of interesting stuffs here and I am learning new stuffs.

Hope this helps,
Mush

Hi Mush, (Back from my business trip)
Very interesting pic. Will try to find out what I have about that one.
Cheers from New Caledonia.
Phil

Here is what I've found :
A similar haube belongs to the famous "Fort de la Pompelle" collection and published in the very good book of Mr Larcade (1983, Les casques à pointes Troupes à pieds) :
"Haube used by german trops engaged in Serbia or Macedonia.They were issued without spike but with a long neckflap. Was also made with white or grey felt and sometimes covered with white cloth."
Hope it can help.
Cheers
Phil

Hi Phil!

Great to have you back here again! Wow, your info certainly helps. Especially that the source came from Lacarde book, you have THE book? Thats very envious, have been repeatedly told that its one of the BEST book abt haubes, and its in French, darn, I dont understand French at all.
This is the only pic I have abt the Macedonian front haube, sorry for the poor quality pic, have no scanner, darn..

and here is the macedonian front haube on ebay, no one is bidding tho, which is weird, perhaps this haube is a fake...?? What do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-GERMAN-ERSATZ...1QQcmdZViewItem

Cheers,
Mush

Hi Mush,
Yes, have the 2 books of Mr Larcade. 1st on Foot troops and 2nd on Mounted troops. Based on the Fort de la Pompelle collection, one of the most complete picklehaubes colection in the world.

Concerning the one listed on ebay it has some good caracteristics (no extra holes on front for instance). The Rgt plate is different from the 2 ones pictured here but it is not a definitive clue.
I like it but don't have enough experience ont that specific haubes to have a definitve opinion.
Cheers
Phil

Military Bargains HASNT sold an original helmet EVER so DONT even go there .He has a little group of Indian slave workers who will knock him up anything and age it as well .As for the helmet Mush posted I saw one at an antiques fair here in the UK 10 years ago but didnt buy it ,I later found out its for the fire brigade or something like that.There is a thread somewhere on them I will have a search.Rob.

Hi Rob,
Thank you very much for the info.
Phil

Hi guys,

Today is a lousy day, my computer crashed and I lost all datas! What a day! Those datas include my working/job files, daily and pickelhaubes files, but I think I had copied them into my other comp, I hope...
Luckily I still remember the password to this forum.

Rob,
Thank you for the info,he is trying to rip off other's money by faking stuffs. Really despises those guys, its a good thing that no one is bidding. Perhaps these macedonian haubes are to easy to fake?
You saw this kind of helmet 10 years ago? Boy, talk abt years of collecting.. :
Btw, do you have any antique/helmet dealer in yr area?

Phil,
I lost all my files, but I managed to find a white covered macedonian haube in a book as described by you, "They were issued without spike but with a long neckflap. Was also made with white or grey felt and sometimes covered with white cloth."
And I think we can see the neckflap on this particular white haube.

Do you have any info as why did these haubes were called Macedonian/Serbian front haubes? Were they used only specifically on those 2 fronts? And why did they have such distinctive appearance?

As usual, answers will only lead to more question, if they were issued without spikes, all the pics confirmed thus and its also describes so by Lacarde, then why went all the trouble in making the spike base for it?

Cheers,
Mush

BTw,

Phil,
Do you also use French languagge in New Caledonia?

Hi gang

I just realised something and this will only lead to more questions.
The pic below is the same pic that I posted earlier abt the german soldiers in macedonia.

Look closely at figures A, B and C.

B is wearing the no-spike macedonian haube, whereas A and C are wearing haubes WITH spike! And these are the same soldiers serving in the macedonian/serbian front.

Now this is confusing, I thought the macedonian haubes were issued WITHOUT spikes. UNLESS, A and C are nt wearing the macedonian front haube, it seems that the spike is covered with the canvas cover. But is that the case?

Cheers,
Mush