Gustaf
Jul 5 2006, 01:19 PM
Greetings,
As a new member I thought I might post a few photos of my collection, the larger display is posted in the display forum, as I collect uniforms and equipment from most combatants of WWI. Here is my Russian mannequin, He wears a M1907 wool field cap with the insignia of the Romanov family; a cotton M1914 gymnastiorka is worn under his M1881 great coat, both are ex studio costume items that may be original (due to unseen details that studio work shops usually did not reproduce); the ammo pouches are reproduction supported by a belt with a M1904 buckle; on his right hip is his entrenching shovel and on his left hip is a M1909 water bottle; he is armed with a M1891 (Remington) Mosin Nagant with bayonet.
[attachmentid=123970]
Takc
Jul 7 2006, 03:19 PM
Gustaf, welcome!
Thanks for showing. Can you provide better pictures of the uniform?
Gustaf
Jul 8 2006, 08:41 AM
Hey Takc,
Sorry for the delay in responding, Here are a few shots of the Gymnastiorka and Overcoat. The overcoat had Soviet buttons sew in the wrong spots for the rear belt, I replaced tham with Imperial buttons at the lacation of the originals (the stitching was still present, I do not know if this coat was made before or after the revolution, but it has seen many changes. The sleeves and shoulders have been enlarged, the liner is also enlarged with a different type of material, the coat has all the interier details and pockets, so eventhough this came out of a studio costume department, I believe that it was an original (although I have no proof).
[attachmentid=124547][attachmentid=124549]
Oops, I have used too much space.
Gus
Gustaf
Jul 8 2006, 08:57 AM
Here is a photo of the Gymnastiorka
[attachmentid=124552]
I am unsure of the meaning of the lace on the cuffs and collar, it is copper in colour, and I have been unable to find any refferance that lists a similar colour. The shoulder boards are reproductions made after a original pair (I did not want to place the weight of the overcoat on them to set up the display) The trousers are reproductions, and the boots are post war Soviet made. The difficulty of finding Russian items has forced me to use a large number of "questionable" items to give the Russian soldier a representation in my display, but I have been able to replace a few over the past few years, and hope to find original replacements for all items. An original Gymnastiorka would be of too great a value to use on a mannequin in this way
[attachmentid=124555]
These are marked to an artillery regt.
[attachmentid=124557]
And here is a side view of the cap.
Best wihses
Gus
Jim Lemon
Jul 9 2006, 11:43 PM
I believe the pointed lace on the cuffs indicate a mounted unit. I could not find any reference to a copper colored lace. Perhaps the copper color is from a dye that has oxidized over time, or perhaps a hollywood addition? Nice looking setup either way.
Gustaf
Jul 10 2006, 10:31 AM
QUOTE(Jim Lemon @ Jul 9 2006, 10:43 PM) [snapback]286043[/snapback]
I believe the pointed lace on the cuffs indicate a mounted unit. I could not find any reference to a copper colored lace. Perhaps the copper color is from a dye that has oxidized over time, or perhaps a hollywood addition? Nice looking setup either way.
Hi Jim, I have suspected that the colour may have shifted, it is also possible that it is a Hollywood addition (colour is not as important in a B/W film. This is an ex-studio item, but I feel that it could be original due to the fact that the collar is very small, and the costumers had to move the collar buttons to the very edge of the collar to make it usable, if it had been made by the costume department, I would think that they would have made the collar a size that was wearable. The lace looks like it is original to the shirt. If I knew that it was real, I do not think that I would be comfortable in using it on a display mannequin in this manner.
Best wishes
Gsu
Jim Lemon
Jul 10 2006, 01:04 PM
I have a gymnatiorka with a hollywood costumers lable in it. It looks detailed enough that I believe it to be an actual military issue piece. The shoulder board buttons are attached by two holes in each shoulder the way I have seen on other imperial gyms. I blacklighted mine and nothing glowed so I am hoping I got an original. The problem is there are not enough originals floating around to compare to and alot of those claiming to be originals are fake. Well, you setup looks good to me. You don't have a Russian Winchester floating around do you?
Regards,
Jim
Gustaf
Jul 10 2006, 01:20 PM
QUOTE(Jim Lemon @ Jul 10 2006, 12:04 PM) [snapback]286261[/snapback]
I have a gymnatiorka with a hollywood costumers lable in it. It looks detailed enough that I believe it to be an actual military issue piece. The shoulder board buttons are attached by two holes in each shoulder the way I have seen on other imperial gyms. I blacklighted mine and nothing glowed so I am hoping I got an original. The problem is there are not enough originals floating around to compare to and alot of those claiming to be originals are fake. Well, you setup looks good to me. You don't have a Russian Winchester floating around do you?
Regards,
Jim
Hey Jim,
Mine has the same button arrangement on the shoulders. I doubt that any of these costume house garment wuld glow as they are msotly form the 30s. The movie costumers bought up all the surplus uniforms they could for next to nothing as it was cheaper than making them. Austrian pre war tunics are a dime a dozen because of this. I am very hesitant to pay several hundred dollars for one that is suposed to be real when I picked mine up for less than $50 (although my wife thought it was a crazy price to pay for an old shirt).
I have seen one Russian Winchester (you are talking about the M1895 arn't you)it was out of my budget, and I doubt that I will ever see another available.
Gus
Jim Lemon
Jul 10 2006, 02:25 PM
Hey Gus,
Yeah I'm talking about the lever action rifle. I've seen a couple for sale, but too rich for my blood. I'm with you on the tunics, the movie business is not going to make a uniform from scratch when they can buy surplus. On the glow, I was talking about any modern addition of buttons or cuff arrangement. My tunic looks to have been resized somewhat, but it must have been done when it was a movie tunic. Plus, I am unsure about the shoulder boards that came with it.
Jim
Patrokl
Sep 15 2006, 06:45 AM
QUOTE(Jim Lemon @ Jul 9 2006, 09:43 PM) [snapback]286043[/snapback]
I believe the pointed lace on the cuffs indicate a mounted unit. I could not find any reference to a copper colored lace. Perhaps the copper color is from a dye that has oxidized over time, or perhaps a hollywood addition? Nice looking setup either way.
Sorry to say, the lace means nothing. Several of these gymnastorkas with this lace pattern came out of the costume inventory in Hollywood movie studios. I beleive they were made for a particular movie. You will see on your gynastorka evidence of a makers tag in the inside back of the shirt by the neck area that was probably removed so it could be sold as an orignal. If you turn your shirt inside out including the sleeve, you will find a very small inked letter "H" the size of a typewritter letter indicating movie studio. This is hard to find, but they are there.
Also, Hollywood studios did aquire in the 1920's several original uniforms, gynastorkas, helmets. They used these items to pattern other costumes from. When their inventories were sold off, they were mixed with original pieces as well as the reproductions. You will find originals with the letter "H" stamped in it as well. You need to know what to look for to determine if the garment shirt came from Russia and is original.
Look at the fabric, weave patterns, color, stitch patterns and buttons. All these items can quickly tell you if the item was made in Russia during WW1.
Patrokl
Sep 15 2006, 07:02 AM
QUOTE(Gustaf @ Jul 8 2006, 06:57 AM) [snapback]285391[/snapback]
[attachmentid=124557]
And here is a side view of the cap.
Best wihses
Gus
This hat also looks to be a reproduction. The color, visor bill and stitch patterns are not correct. Color should be more khaki light green in color pre-1916 and more chocolate brown after 1916. The Imperial Russian visor bill was made of compressed cardboard painted black or green and always had a raised ridge around the front of it for added strength. The stitch pattern in Russia at the time was very tight with more loops per inch or cm. The stitch pattern on this hat was used from WW2 to present day. This hat may have been one of hundreds that were supplied by Mollo in England back in the 70's for the Movie " Nicholas and Alexandra" and was an old British EM cap that had the same look as an Imperial Russian Visor cap with an Imperial Russian EM cokard added to it. The visor bill, stitch and color looks british but I would have to look at it more closely and inspect the inside of the cap. Newer fakes have similar characteristics.
Luftwaffe Rules
Sep 15 2006, 02:58 PM
Nice Mannequin!! I love the old Russian Nagant! All the best, Jon
Gustaf
Sep 18 2006, 10:08 PM
Thanks Jon, The Nagant is actually American made, by Remington. It seems that this one made it to Russia, where it went through an arsonal, then back to the US.
Bes twihse
Gus
Gustaf
Sep 18 2006, 10:19 PM
Hey Patrokl,
Thanks for the information on the gymnastorka and cap, You are correct about the gymnastorka coming from a studio, There are some reasons that I believe it could be an original, but it could never be proven, so it makes a good basis for a display of this sort (I would not want to hang equipment on a proven original) As for the cap, there are no markings other than a name tag with Amundson on it, so it could have come out of Norway or Sweden. The up side to these items is that I did not pay a lot for either of them.
Best wishes
Gus
Gustaf
Mar 16 2007, 11:05 AM
Hey Patrokl,
Thanks to your information onthe cap, I was able to get motivated and locate an original (at least it appears to be original), I will post a photo when I can get time to take one.
Best wihses and thanks
Gus
Gustaf
May 23 2009, 05:46 PM
Hi All,
I have been AWIL for some time, but I have not been inactive, Thanks to the help from Patrokl is IDing items that needed to be replace, I think I have improved my display, there is still room for improvement though.
First is the maniquin with out the overcoat, I have managed to pick up a nice gymnistiorka and have replaced my reproduction ammo pouches with a rough set of erstz pouches. the leather on these is very fragile, also, in this photo I have set a US made Winchester M1895 Russian contract rifle and bayonet

The next set of photos the same mannequin with the overcoat, and a Remington made MN

Any critasism is welcomed.
Best wihses
Gus
OKW
May 24 2009, 12:49 PM
It looks very nice.
OKW
Gustaf
May 24 2009, 06:13 PM
Thanks,
I have reason to believe that the wooden water bottle may be Italian rather than Russian, it fits the Russian construction pattern, but I have seen a water bottle similar to it recently with Italian markings. This on only has "A H" burned into the bottom, not enough to know if it is cyrillic for AN or if it is just AH. The ID tag is one of two that I have, marked in a similar manner, this one is hex shaped and the other is round, both are one vershok in size. The hand grenades are the M1912 lantern grenade, both dated 1915.
Gsu
Aceton
Sep 16 2009, 01:05 AM
Here is a good photo of Russian WWI infantriman from one of the leading Russian re-enacting groups:

Probably will be useful to you.
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