I was informed that once again the auction house of Hermann Historica is offering an item of 'less then authenticate' background.

I have personally purchased from these people before, and have not have a problem. However, I personally know several others that have.

Hermann's has some great items go though their doors, but also some rather funny items in just recent times, Gorings Onyz Grand Cross (Sold for 44000 Euro), Kurt Daluege's Tunic (Sold for 28000 Euro)....and lets add the newest addition........ADOLF HITLER PERSONALY PARTY PIN. (Sold for 78 000 Euro or $97,316.31USD) This badge also 'is "certified" by 1973 affidavit from by Heinz Linge and Heinrich Hoffmann.'


So....here is my take of this badge.

The badge is marked with '7'. Hitler of course never was member # 7. In 1925 he was number 1 when all memberships were revoked and reissued, and previous to 1923 he was member number 555. The party member 7 story is a myth based on Hitler's claim to have been the 7th member of the executive committee of the old DAP.

The badge is "signed" by Hitler like an Honour GPB. The story is this badge was presented to him as a gift in 1937. Why would anyone put a facsimile of his signature on his own badge?

The badge offered is a screw back, but has no hook, which means it would spin and fall off or be un-even..which would not be thinkable for the Fuhrer. Ok, so maybe the hook was broken....doubtfully, but it would show signes of this.

The wreath is on sideways, with the ribbon tie at the bottom at a 90 degree angle to the "DAP" at the bottom.

Finally, its provenance is supposed to be the badge Magda Goebbels received from Hitler on the evening of 27 April 1945. That badge was dug up by the Russians with her corpse in 1945 and went into the KGB archives. It is still there today. It was badly fire damaged. 750 gold would not have survived as well.

As for the person that purchased this........here is Hermann's 'Terms of sale' copied from their site....

All lots may be examined on our premises and cannot be sent to prospective bidders for purposes of their inspection. All lots are sold 'as is', with all faults, imperfections and errors of description. Prospective buyers submitting written 'order bids', may file complaints within 6 weeks after sale, however, this in no way entitles them to delay final payment. Catalogue descriptions are made as conscientiously as possible, nevertheless, no statement shall be deemed as a warranty.

To sum this all up.....even an item with 'provience' can be copied.



Now, Hermann's is a Auction house. They are selling (supposedly) selling these items for other people....consigning them.

My question to you the reader of this, does this let them off as having responsibility for the items they sell (fake or real) because they are coming from someone else? Should they take responsibility for the fakes they are peddling, or push it off on the Consigner?

HANSE

More information from HERMANN'S web site regarding this piece.....

more photos of this jewel

final photo of the Hitler Party badge.

I am not even going to bother doing a write up on this.....

Kurt Daluege's Tunic. Visor cap totally incorrect, rank insignia possibly incorrect, etc. etc. etc.

Rank photo of this monster

HANSE:

I agree with you completely re: this auction house. There was an incident a year or so ago with them selling a visor that was supposedly Karl Wolff's (sp?) that was bad. The buyer did get his money back, though.

Just out of curiosity, who in the world would condsider any documents associated with Gerd Heidemann as authentic? Anyone who doesn't think that Heidemann created all of the "provenance" is very naive...

Regards,

Drew

What I didn't like about this auction was the following line:

"In his posssession the medallion must once have been refixed, as it is now in a slightly different position as it was in 1973."

Ohhhh really? So, is someone just going to go to the local jeweler's and "fix" Hitler's party badge? And how did someone break it in the first place?

Sorry, but if I had been a player, that line would have scared me off!!!

--Dave

What I do know is fact, One- that Hiler changed uniforms all the time and they were already made-up for him,badges afixed to them, so he must have had more than one party badge givin that senarrio.Second- he gave one to Eva"Hitler"when they married,It was on her when the russians found the burned bodies, and its at the russian museum,Its burned-up but you can still identify it.

I am the person who purchased "Karl Wolff's visor" about a year ago. I made the mistake of "bad-mouthing" the auction house on another website before I had even begun discussing with them the return of the item (actually "items" because in my opinion all three of the visor caps that I purchased were incorrect). The auction house was not pleased that I would a) discuss my problems openly before discussing it with them, and b) making swaggering comments about what I would do if I did not get my money back.

In the end, I did receive my money back from them, but I did have to sweat it out for about 6 weeks (or something like that) while they made their decision.

At the end of the day, however, I learned a lesson which many people already know. I had been been prepared to spend a large sum of money simply because I believed that the auction house was infallible, and that the fact that I purchased the item from them meant that authenticity was guaranteed. Fortunately, I am a long-time collector of visor caps, and could instantly tell that there was a problem. If I was purchasing something from them about which I had no clue, but only faith, I would be none the wiser (until I went to sell it myself, or until an informed person laughed when they saw it on my shelf). So yes, the auction house was honest because it returned my investment, but disappointing because they did not know enough about the item to not offer it in the first place. No one should therefore ever buy anything from anybody until they have done their homework on the piece.

Clive

clive-

most interesting to hear about the resolution of your ordeal.
i am glad you got your money back, and your thoughts on
preparation PRIOR to purchase are sage.

welcome to MCF!! perhaps you'll post some pictures of
a few of your visors.

joe

Thought I resurect this topic by added a few new items to the listing of FRAUD from this auction house.

Here is the last item which I've already discussed.

http://www.militariacollecting.com/index.p...sult_type=posts

Next........we have this beauty.

Notice the engraving on the reverse is totally incorrect, as the number should have a carriage return before it. It should be on it's on line.

I'm not too keen about the front either.

This beauty had a starting bid of 12500 Euro's and final sale was 30.000.

GOOD JOB HERMANN'S!!!

Reverse

Hitler had more than one gold party badge. According to an eyewitness who was in the bunker: after he gave his party badge to Magda he was seen walking around with another one soon after.

- Chris

More good work there Hanse. Keep 'em peeled!

.........and I can tell you that the one photographed above just ain't it!!!

sorry... I wasn't saying that one was real... I was just saying Hitler had more than one. I just like to chime in with stuff...

- Chris

No problems Chippler. I'm sure that Hitler did have more then one Party badge. But as stated, with factual backing, the piece sold by Hermann's Auction is not authenticate.

Where do all these buyers come from?

Visited Hermann Historica's auction a couple of years ago here in Munich. (It is located directly across the street from the München Staatsanwaltschaft - the place that impounds your 3rd Reich Militaria if you cross the line, which I have had some experience of).

Anyway, I didn't like what I saw.

Hello all and especially Drew. You are correct in questionning anything with Heidemann's name attached to it. But, factually he created little if any provenance for items he owned and sold or traded off. You remember his involvement in the $3 million Hitler Diaries swindle for sure. These were forged by Konrad Kujau, a dealer in TR items in Stuttgart. He is known to have forged documents signed by just about every TR notable, usually to authenticate a piece he was peddling. Heidemann beleved just about anything this man told him.

This whole story makes an excellent read and good primer for all TR collectors. Look for a copy of "Selling Hitler" by Robert Harris. It was published by Pantheon Books in 1986 in the US. Kujau died last year, I believe. Heidemann, the last time I looked, had a rap sheet with a warrent put on the internet by the German police. He did actually own Goering's yacht for a period of time. Herman

I am not sure if he is a member here, but I thought I would add this posting from the GDC to this list.

The SS-Oberstgruppenfuhrer collar tab shown above is definitely a reproduction. When Kurt made the rank of SS-Oberstgruppenfuhrer und Generaloberst der Polizei, the entire SS was wearing the gray-green uniforms, including him. He wore the police-green uniform with the insignia of the Police Generals (three oakleaves and pips in gold bullion on a fine-quality toxic-green wool backing and piped in gold twist cord). Since the SS wasn't even wearing their Allgemeine-SS uniforms during the war, I would think that Kurt's uniform would still have the SS-Obergruppenfuhrer collar tabs, even the pre-June 1942 styled ones. Cannot comment on the entire tunic but the collar tabs are definitely REPRODUCTIONS...

Well, my favorite Nazi dealer from Germany is at it again.

This time they have TWO Juli 44 wound badges for sale. Of course both accompanied via Niemann certificates of authenticity.



Here are the jokes, and you can own them for only 20.000Euros, and 15.000 euros.
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Reverse.

Notice how the reverse has a splashed look. This is because someone used a chemical to artifically age the medal. The chemical is called "Liver of sulfur" which blackens silver in seconds.

This is not a patina from age, but a current technique to age.


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The black beauty. This makes FOUR of these badges this firm has sold in a little more then a years time. There were only 20 some awarded, and I believe less then 40 total badges struck. Hermann's Historica has just sold 10% of all the Juli 44 badges (originals..haha) ever made.

Do you think this will raise any red flags with someone that has common sense?

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........and of course this beauty also comes with a certificate of authenticity from Niemann.

Photo of a set of collar tabs being offered by Hermann's. Price is a low 1500 Euro + fees for these fake $10 tabs.

Pathetic!

Concerning the 20 Juli 44 badges my source tells me they can be bought at various stages of scary depending on what you ask for. I think the gold badge on TRD came from the same maker. It looks like they have corrected the 9 as well.